Sunday, November 18, 2012

Is HDB Apartment As Affordable As A $8 CAGB?

When I read that the Minister of National Develoment said, "BTO flats affordable for first-timers " and  "I think not enough credit is given to my ministry' with a smile, (ST Page A6 17 Nov 2012I thought, maybe just maybe, during his $8 Coronary Artery Graft Bypass operation, the surgeons might have accidentally removed Khaw Boon Wan's Buddhist heart! [Link]

"We take affordability fully into account when pricing BTO flats. New flats enjoy generous discounts off market prices" . .  . "Looking at it from the situation that we are facing today, I find these figures very reasonable."

"Resale price is beyond my control. That is set by buyer and seller. But for first-timers buying BTO flats, that is within my control and it is my job to ensure it will be affordable." (emphasis mine and italics appeared in ST). Maybe a BTO flat can be as affordable as a $8 CAGB? [Link]

So the rise in prices of new HDB flats (12% since 2009) is less than that of resale units (34% since 2009). With that Khaw Boon Wan "think not enough credit is given to my ministry". The way that ministers go about asking and claiming credit (more so in their facebook) is discomfortingly embarrassing! Worse, it feels like in kick in the testicles when they still want credit after messing us up by increasing the price of HDB flats!

For the life of me and the rest of common Singaporeans, I do not understand how on earth a HDB flat is "subsidised" when the cost of building it is less than the selling price. I also cannot bring myself to accept the logic of HDB benchmarking its BTO selling price to prices of open market resale flats! If it is within the control of Khaw Boon Wan, why is he still pricing BTO flats the way he does?

The word affordable is so relative. In relation to a ministers's pay, the price of a BTO 4-room apartment at $310,000 is merely loose change in the pocket. However, to a commoner in Singapore, $310,000 (excluding interest) is one heck of a sum that needs maybe more than a life time to pay!!!

"We can't just measure our success by GDP growth, important as this is, but also by the growth of our values: compassion, empathy, altruism, love for our fellow citizens," said PM Lee Hsien Loong [Link]. If only they can do what they preach then NATO would not stand for "No Action, Talk Only!" What about "building a democratic society based on justice and equality" that our school kids and teachers read out loud every school day? Many concerned citizens and I are deafened by the silence from the Prime Minister on his PAP colleague Seah Kian Peng's intervention in a Traffic Warden's job [Link]. Does that mean MP Seah is more equal and has more justice than other Singaporeans? If silence from PM means consent, I guess we are done for!

To knock some senses into PAP and show that great ideas do not necessary come from the overpaid PAP ministers, I'm glad that SDP has worked on alternatives that the cheap NATCON (National Conversation) would do its utmost to avoid. As expected, they declined the invitation by SDP to a National Conversation that touches so many in Singapore!

Please read the exchanges below.

feedmetothefish

9 November 2012
Dear Mr Jufrie,
Thank you for sharing SDP’s housing plan with us.
MND has also received suggestions from other Singaporeans regularly. We welcome all feedback and suggestions, as they help us fine tune our policies.

Yours sincerely,
Tan Pei Shan (Ms)
Deputy Director / Housing
for Permanent Secretary
Ministry of National Development.

SDP then wrote back saying that what Singapore’s public housing needs is an overhaul rather than just “fine-tuning”.

SDP said, “When Singaporeans are retiring without CPF savings because they have sunk their funds into over-priced HDB flats, the situation calls for an overhaul, not fine-tuning.”

SDP’s reply:
15 November 2012
Khaw Boon Wan
Minister
Ministry of National Development
Singapore

Dear Sir,
I thank you for your reply dated 9 November 2012 through your Permanent Secretary.
It is incomprehensible that you would consider the public housing in need of only “fine-tuning”. You seem not to understand the anger and frustration that Singaporeans have with the public housing system.

When the HDB markets a three-room flat for nearly $800,000 the situation calls for drastic action, not “fine-tuning”. When Singaporeans are retiring without CPF savings because they have sunk their funds into over-priced HDB flats the situation calls for an overhaul, not “fine-tuning”. When, our younger generation put off having children because they cannot afford buying their own homes the situation calls for reform, not “fine-tuning”.
I hope that you will be able to see that the problems Singaporeans face over housing are real and significant.

I invite you to give the housing situation in Singapore a full and public airing by debating the SDP so that Singaporeans can compare and contrast the PAP’s system with the SDP’s plan. This will allow the people to see which policy is better for them and choose accordingly at the next elections.

Thank you.

Jufrie Mahmood
Chairman
Singapore Democratic Party
[Link]

56 Comments:

At November 18, 2012 at 2:54 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Khaw have to make the people think that he deserve his $$$alary, while screwing the daft citizens by letting them slave for the roofs over their heads.
He has to pretend that there is not a smart blogger who can see through his hubris.
Thanks for another excellent post.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 4:41 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Khaw is a boaster cock. There are no 2 ways abot it. He is so in need of people saying, "Boon Wan, you are doing a wonderful job."

 
At November 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM , Anonymous JG said...

If KBH is still scratching his head about why he's not given "credit", he need not scratch any longer. Ever since the infamous use of statistics - $8 for hospitalization, HDB flat size unchanged since 19XX (conveniently chosen date) - many have wisen up to "believing what we see".

Frankly, if KBH were confident in his assertion, he should publish all the data. Costs to build at HDB flat, land costs (as priced), land costs (on compulsory acquisition moons ago). And the data should go back to 20 years, not just a conveniently selected starting date. But of course, he will not do that.

This is in contrast to LKY 20-30 years ago, when he debated Chiam ST on Parliament. At that time, HDB were priced at cost plus and LKY challenged CST to build a block of flats to see the costs for himself. At least, LKY was willing to be transparent.

And the other remark that made my blood boil is - "I have no control over the resale market". Really??? Then you should quickly step down as MND minister since you really don't understand your job scope. Why the hell then did you implement those property curbs and measures? Isn't it to "control" the resale market? Its one thing to say your measures have been unsuccessful (too little, too late) -- its quite another to disclaim responsibility. In that case, the faster you go, the better. No wonder the measures have been unsuccessful - you didn't know why you were doing it in the first place!!!

 
At November 18, 2012 at 7:23 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr Fish, I believe their constant use of the term "affordability" is intended to eventually replace the debunked "subsidised".

 
At November 18, 2012 at 9:43 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

No Millionaire of National Development can say "he has no control" over anything to do with property.

HDB (government) owns all the HDB flats in Singapore.
So HDB (government) owns 90% of all properties in Singapore.
HDB (government) is the property market in Singapore. The property market is HDB (government).

Sinkies. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 9:58 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wah! Is it true that Singapore government owns 90% of all properties and land in Singapore?

 
At November 18, 2012 at 10:18 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"generous discounts off market prices" So how the hell did Mah Bow Tan manage to have an annual deficit of $2 Billion?

 
At November 18, 2012 at 10:24 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

It has probably something to do with the magic of accounting that ordinary citizens are not supposed to know.
Heck! Even President Ong Teng Cheong was not supposed to ask. Anybody remember the 56 man-years reply?
Is that how you talk to a supposed head of state?
Is 56 man-years a polite way of saying "fcuk off"?

 
At November 18, 2012 at 11:38 AM , Blogger FeedMeToTheFish said...

Add On:

Maybe the term "subsidised/affordable" HDB flats is a joke shared privately by PAP ministers and their supporters! Are they laughing at the helplessness of the commoners who are at their mercy?

They demolish the blocks of 10-storey 3-room flats in Commonwealth and paid the lessee (my relative) just enough to buy another 3-room (much smaller in area size) in another 40-storey block nearby. The bedrooms are so small compared to her previous 3-room that was demolished. The so-called master bedroom could not even take in a standard queen size bed and a wardrobe!

Meanwhile imagine the huge numbers of units built in the 40-storey blocks and the big "subsidised/affordable" bucks streaming into HDB!

Now let's see how high and how many more units HDB can build out of the land where the 10-storeys were demolished! Watch out for more "subsidised/affordable" flats that gets smaller with astronomical prices!

No matter how it works out, HDB wins! We simply pay and pay . . .

 
At November 18, 2012 at 11:50 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

OMG! Is the Republic of Singapore nothing more than a property development company? We the citizens increase the land value of Singapore ... for whose benefit?

Must be the land and property owners right?
And who owns the land and property in Singapore?
The Singapore government who owns 90% of the land & property.
And the rich who own the remaining 10% of the private land and private property.

And those who "own" HDB flats don't really own the HDB flats. They just own the lease that allows them to stay in the HDB flats for 99 years. Like a car's COE.

So asset enhancement in Singapore benefits only the Singapore government and the rich who own private property.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 11:56 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Proof that we are not the owners of HDB flat:

@ November 18, 2012 11:38 AM
"They demolish the blocks of 10-storey 3-room flats in Commonwealth and paid the lessee (my relative) just enough to buy another 3-room (much smaller in area size) in another 40-storey block nearby."

If you really own your HDB flat, they can't simply suka, suka ask you to move out.

When a a 99 year leasehold condo goes en-bloc, there are many competing buyers bidding up the price of your property.

When an HDB flat goes SERS (so called HDB enbloc), HDB is the only "buyer".

 
At November 18, 2012 at 12:34 PM , Anonymous JG said...

When he talks about the 20+% increase in HDB resale prices, he referred to "all HDB resale" flats.

When he talks about the 12% increase in HDB BTO, he refers to "in non-mature estates".

And then he compares apples with oranges, and ask for a hug.

Hello???? Think we are stupid???

 
At November 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ JG November 18, 2012 12:34 PM
" Think we are stupid??? "

But the Millionaire-In-White does think we are stupid.
Because 60% of us are stupid enough to vote for them.
And then afterwards, cowpeh, cowbu, beg them to help us.

Instead, we should first vote Opposition.
And then afterwards, we can then negotiate from a position of strength.
Remember.
Vote Opposition first.
Then we negotiate with them.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 1:12 PM , Blogger oldhorse42 said...

He has no control over HDB resale flats? What the fxxk is he talking about? Who made the policy that allow PRs to buy resale flat? Who made the policy that allow whole HDB flats to b rented out? He should stop giving excuses and earn his million$$$ pay!

 
At November 18, 2012 at 1:44 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"He should stop giving excuses and earn his million$$$ pay!"

Maybe Khaw IS earning his million dollar pay?
Keep HDB prices high to benefit the Singapore reserves.
And win the GE 2011 elections.

Who decides Khaw's salary?
PM Lee that's who.
Not the Singapore taxpayers.
Unless you are the 40% who voted Opposition.
Which forced a slight reduction in Minister's pay.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 2:56 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Holy Cow uses a percentage benchmark to assess the affordability of HDB flats. He said if you spend 23% of your monthly income to pay off the instalments, thats affordable. he conveniently never mentioned the tenure of the loan - If you have to pay off over 30-years. assuming you buy the flat at 30 years old, by the time you pay off the flat, you will already be 60, with nothing in your CPF. How to retire with no money in CPF ?

 
At November 18, 2012 at 3:38 PM , Blogger Nicole Tin said...

Singaporeans are too conservative. We should demand free housing. 2-room HDB should be free. Bigger apartment should get real subsidy.

Mah & Co transfer citizen earnings into reserve. Dubai transfers reserve to citizens. Something is not right with Sg's one way flow of money.

http://cod-democracy.blogspot.sg/2012/11/dubai-citizens-get-free-housing.html

 
At November 18, 2012 at 4:25 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Mah & Co transfer citizen earnings into reserve. Dubai transfers reserve to citizens."

This is because PAP is a fascist party ... like Hitler's Germany.
Under this type of political ideology, ordinary citizens are sacrificed "for the greater good" of the country.
In our specific case, we are all sacrificed for the enlargement of the national reserves.

Our sons are sacrificed for the "greater good" of our country's defence.
Our daughters are sacrificed "for the greater good" of making babies.
Our elderly are sacrificed "for the greater good" of having cheap labour.
You get the picture.

Source:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IvPIWzQcUY

 
At November 18, 2012 at 5:10 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

1 minute Historical film of Hitler sending teenage boys to die for him in war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLW-6OU1EUo&feature=related

The lives and happiness of citizens under a fascist regime matters little.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 5:43 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Anon November 18, 2012 11:56 AM

U wrote:
"When an HDB flat goes SERS (so called HDB enbloc), HDB is the only "buyer"."

Sorry, such flat are compulsorily acquired by the Govt of S"pore, not the HDB, exercising the Land Acquisition Act.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 6:20 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ANON: November 18, 2012 5:43 PM
"Sorry, such flat are compulsorily acquired by the Govt of S"pore, not the HDB, exercising the Land Acquisition Act."

3 questions please:

a.In the context of Singapore's history since 1965, what's the difference between HDB and the Govt. of Singapore?

b."Compulsory acquisition by government" and "HDB is the only buyer" ... what's the difference?
Either case, only one party shows up to pay you "compensation".

c.The land on which the HDB flat sits on. That land belongs to HDB. So the wayang is that the govt. by compulsion acquires land that belongs to itself?
Left pocket transfer to right pocket.
Haven't we seen this wayang before?

 
At November 18, 2012 at 7:40 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does 56 man years mean? Does it = 56 men working non stop for a year? In that case, since there are some unemployed pmet, why not engage the help of 560 pmet, 8 hrs a day, for 0.3 yrs. We can know our reserves in four mths time.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 8:34 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

QUOTE:
"We can know our reserves in four mths time."

If they did not want to tell our ELECTED President Ong Teng Cheong so many years ago, why would they want to tell us now?

President Ong was elected by the people of Singapore to REPRESENT us. And the PAP government essentially told him (and us) to bugger off.
As long as 60% of our daft friends and relatives keep voting PAP; PAP will keep doing whatever they damn well please.

Anyway. What makes you think there is any money left in the reserves anyway?
If they can tell us HDB flats are subsidized and affordable, they can also tell us we have a huge reserves.
After all, nobody has actually seen it. We only have their word for it that it exists.

 
At November 18, 2012 at 8:51 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Anon: November 18, 2012 6:20 PM

My focal point and personal view is that until the Govt of S'pore decides to transfer the acquired blocks of flats and land out, "ownership" over them still lies with the Govt, and not with any other party.

 
At November 19, 2012 at 9:04 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a saying: All is not butter that comes from the cow. More khaw-shit and dissimulation from the Minister. The $8 CAGB must have by-passed more blood to the ass than to the brain.

He thinks he has done enough on new flats, and the resale flates are beyond his control. So, resting on your laurels, Minister? Can we "afford" him, and others of his ilk?

 
At November 19, 2012 at 9:25 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Govt owns 90% of land & properties in Singapore.
Paid millions in annual salary.
And is unable to house Singaporeans.

You mean Khaw does not talk to the Minister in charge of immigration to find out how many new immigrants, PRs, work permit holders coming to S'pore?

What a bunch of useless assholes.

 
At November 20, 2012 at 4:47 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

If this stupid minister can show us $8 bypass surgery, he should show us he can live on $1k in a 3rm flat for 1 year paying his mortgage as a normal citizen. This idiot created his nonsense means testing for the people to pay more for health care yet he need only pay $8 does not make sense.

 
At November 20, 2012 at 4:59 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good news bypass surgery for $8 only now this idiot have no heart. His blood now bypasses his heart and he don't need a heart so doctors remove it. So there you have it heartless minister. This operation has been done on all pap ministers and members of parliament.

 
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At November 20, 2012 at 5:37 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

PAP-MIW Joke - Harry Goes To Hell
=====================

Well, one day, Harry Lee found out he wasn't immortal, because he died and went straight to Hell.

He was met by his old friend, the Devil, who reminded him of his pact. Harry tried to argue, but the Devil had much better legal skills and unfortunately the part in the contract about selling one's soul in order to rule a country was air-tight and binding.

So the Devil made Harry a concession. "Well I have to put you through Eternal Torment, but since you're an old friend and someone after my own heart, I'll allow you your choice of punishment. Come see what your political rivals are going through."

He took him to the first cell, where Chee Soon Juan was starving away, chained up, just inches away from a sumptuous banquet.

"That'll teach him for going on hunger strikes," grinned Harry, but declined this punishment.

The next cell had Chiam See Tong strapped to a table with his mouth open while a wild goose above walked around, crapping.

"Serves him right, but not for me," said Harry.

The Devil opened the door to the last cell. J B Jeyaretnam was naked, chained to a post, while a Catherine Lim in leathers was forced to perform fellatio on him.

"What kind of punishment is that?" ejaculated Harry, "But in any case, I'll take it!"

"Sure?" asked the Devil.

"Absolutely," replied the former Senior Minister of a tiny island.

"OK, in you go," ordered the Devil, as a few henchmen started to strap Harry Lee and bring him into the cell.

Looking into the cell, the Devil shouted, "Right, Catherine, we've found your replacement, you can come out now!"

http://www.talkingcock.com/html/joke...jcat=Political

 
At November 20, 2012 at 7:16 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.yiddishwit.com/gallery/cow.html

The prize for the bestest and mostest bloopers go to Minister Khaw, hands and udders down! These are the Khaw-shit (pun intended):
Cheaper nursing homes in JB
Means testing for C class hospital wards
$2200 Brompton bikes warranted
Bhutan is not Shangri-la on earth
Size of HDB flats not shrinking in last 15 years
$8 Heart surgery
BTO flats affordable for first-timers 
…ad nauseum….

If HDB flats, benchmarked to market rate and are subsidised (sic), are affordable (sic), by the same token, are his and the ministers salaries, also pegged to market rate and subsidised by tax-payers, equally affordable?

 
At November 21, 2012 at 4:17 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Feed Me To The Fish,

I must say your writing skills have improved, keep up the good work.

I think Khaw Boon Wan is a shameless charlatan who thinks he deserves more credit is without merit, there were no measures of significance that were taken by this Govt to alleviate the worsening condition. Manifestly, the propagandistic PAP is full of form without substantial substance, what is there to showcase but more rhetoric and propaganda in merry-go-rounds of Natcon.
We are now facing runaway housing prices, spiraling and unaffordable medical costs, it is spiraling out of control, is that wilful mismanagement?

Khaw Boon Wan was the previous Minister of MOH, there are now a chronic shortage of Singaporean doctors, why is that so, sheer incompetent I'll say.
During his tenure at the MOH, many original medicine under MOH was taken out and replaced with generic medicine, the efficacy of which is disputable. Original medicine cost much more, when you paid for your generic medicine, did you benefitted from the cost savings measures financially, I do not think so, rather, I think the cost have gone up, who then benefitted from the tradeoff made on the supposed welfare of the people.

(Creating Without Ulterior Motives « Skelliewag.org)
http://www.skelliewag.org/creating-without-ulterior-motives-1189.htm

(Why Great Writing Doesn’t Matter Online « Skelliewag.org)
http://www.skelliewag.org/why-great-writing-doesnt-matter-online-246.htm

(How to improve your writing skills - by Natalie M. Wolverson - Helium)
http://www.helium.com/items/1762053-improving-your-writing-skills

Joshua Chiang

 
At November 22, 2012 at 3:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting to note Mr Khaw ONLY pay $8 for his by pass...

Mr Khaw surgery was heavily subsidized by the tax dollars..directly/indirectly from the peoples of singapore...

So the people of singapore save him...

Seems...it is only about himself and party first then the peoples of singapore.

Pathetic.

 
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At November 23, 2012 at 6:42 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I want to give him my middle finger.

 
At November 23, 2012 at 7:10 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't think of ONE good reason why Khaw would want to reduce HDB prices.

a)HDB is a monopoly. No competitor. Why reduce price?
b)reducing HDB price reduces money transferred to Singapore Reserves. This will affect Khaw's KPI. And hence his salary increment. Why reduce price?

c)at least 60% of Sinkies will vote for Khaw again in GE 2016. Guaranteed re-election. So why reduce price?

 
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At November 24, 2012 at 5:20 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

My business partner just told me that his 24 years old daughter and her boyfriend is waiting for their 4 room 90sqm Boon Keng BTO flat to complete in a year's time. Cost is $598,000. I was shocked. I pity them really.

 
At November 24, 2012 at 7:34 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

90 sqm BTO flat big enough for 2 kids and elderly parents or not?
Khaw ... did you hear me?
Big enough or not?

 
At November 26, 2012 at 12:45 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

“…the state had built about 25,000 new flats EACH years for the last two years” From The Straits Times Monday 26 Nov 2012 page A8

“Hauling MBT to court to explain why only 26,000 flats were built during 2006-2010 while population increased by almost a million would be a better topic and more serving to the people of Singapore.” From one of the internet commentator,

If the above comment about only 26,000 flats were built during 2006-2010, is true, then we demand an answer from our leaders: Why only built about 5,200 flats per year during 2006-2010 if we need to built about 25,000 flats per year during 2011-2012?

This could be the reason why our housing prices are higher and higher during 2006-2010.

 
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